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Still receiving invoices after cancelling subscription

  • 2 March 2024
  • 10 reacties
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My contract with KPN (XS4ALL) ended on 19-01-24 due to switch over to Odido and I choseĀ  the option that oOdido informs KPN over the switch. Now still in March I am receiving invoices from KPN. There was one for Jan 1-31, then second for Feb 1-29 and today I have a new one for March 01-31.
On January 19th around noon while still having the KPN router plugged in and while I was working from home, the internet connection (just as KPN announced it) was turned off. I unpacked the Odido router, replaced the offline KPN one and I was back online. So everything worked just as I was told it was gonna work except I am still paying KPN for my internet. Mind you, in this period I did not receive any invoices from Odido, and I just noticed that fact tonight. Can somebody explain why am I in this KPN/Odido twilight zone?
I couldnā€™t find any users on this forum who had something similar to this happen to them. Itā€™s typically the slotfactuur thing that confuses some people, but my case is obviously different.
Why is KPN still charging me even though they turned off the internet access on Jan 19th?
And why is Odido not charging me even though I am using their internet access that I had subscribed to and they have given me access to?
Something tells me that the option ā€œDo you want us to tell your old internet provider about the change in your contractā€ mostly botched terribly.

Thanks everybody for reading and taking the time to comment.

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Beste antwoord door Thomas van KPN 11 March 2024, 17:24

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Odido customer service tells me that I am not the only customer with this issue, but they, the customer service, have no clue why is this happening. I was told that I will be contacted in ā€˜a few weeksā€™ by ā€˜a specialistā€™.
Any KPN specialists here?

Reputatie 7
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Hi @drmr, welcome to our forum!
It sounds like the Odido connection has not been activated yet and you're on our connection with your Odido modem.Ā 
This would also explain why your KPN connection is still being invoiced and Odido hasn't yet.

Odido backoffice will contact our backoffice and solve this issue.Ā 

Thank you Thomas for the response.

Since I saw this morning on my banking app that a new payment for KPN is scheduled for tomorrow I decided to continue this thread.

Just for good measure, I took time to pull out the modem I still have from KPN (XS4ALL supplied it few years back) and try to connect to KPN since it is configured to dial KPN unlike Zyxel modem from Odido which is configured to dial Odido for WAN access.

And just like I had experienced on January 19th, KPN refuses the dial attempt while Odido on Zyxel dials successfully and receives a connection.

If I visit whoismyisp dot org website it recognizes Odido Netherlands BV as my internet service provider.

This issue is not an issue from Networking Administration point, itā€™s an issue from Customer Relationship Management/Invoicing point.

To say that Odido connection has not been activated yet and that I am somehow on KPN connection with my Odido modem would imply that KPN is still billing me for the internet traffic provided.

As I said in my original post, simple facts point out that KPN connection was terminated on Jan 19th and at least since then my ISP is Odido.

Based on these and information I gathered from Odido this is what happened:

I had chosen the option that Odido informs KPN of ISP switch (ISPs consider that smooth client transition experience) and Odido, from Customer Relationship Management point, has a few steps in their CRM software thatĀ  a new client takes: ā€˜In behandelingā€™, ā€˜Installatie datum bekendā€™ and so on.
One of those important steps is that a technician comes over, installs the modem and upon completing their work progresses the CRM step to the next one. I had chosen to install the modem myself but not inform the company that Odido hires to do the installation (Installation is not free, by the way, I paid for it but I was not given the option to install it myself. Odido sends installers whether you like it or not). As a consequence the CRM step is to this day stuck in the ā€˜In behandelingā€™ phase. Now, the KPN Networking Administrators, being the linux nerds they are, did their job on time, ignoring all the CRM rubbish, and pulled the plug on my WAN user, and Odido admins, equally cool and nerdy, created a user days before 19th, and accepted dial in attempts because the modem installation guy typically arrives before the official contract start date.
And this is where the Smooth Client Transition Experience is meant to take its actual place.
Letā€™s assume that the Odido installation guy came over a day early of the actual contract start. When he dials home after plugging in the new modem, home will accept log in attempts for the new Odido customer because Odido network admins did their job days before. At the same time KPN network admins donā€™t need to know this because they will remove the old user on 19th and there is no harm if the old user stops logging in before 19th since the user canā€™t use two modems at the same time.
At the same time the KPN/Odido CRM/Invoicing people are waiting to get informed of what happened on the ground since, unlike networking, invoicing is very much affected by the installation guy arriving a day early.
As a consequence, Networking Administration and CRM/Invoicing diverged. If you ask the server guys, everything is working as intended. The old user was removed, the new one created and is already logging in. If you ask the office people, the CRM people, the client never had their modem installed and thatā€™s why the CRM phase is not at itā€™s final step, therefor the Odido Invoicing people do not produce any invoices and meanwhile the KPN office never received the stop signal to stop producing new ones. What KPN invoicing people know about networking and the fact the user that is still being charged, has actually been removed from KPN servers. They just use their CRM software by advancing those phases/steps and taking action according to. There is no action ā€˜stop invoicingā€™ in case when CRM step is ā€˜in behandelingā€™ phase, so stopping they shall not.

You can especially appreciate this issue when you realize that communication Odido/KPN is supposed to result in invoices that reflect the actual installation dates, so that the client experiences smooth transition. No internet outage. No double paid internet bills.

In this example, as easy as that, this great idea has failed so badly that KPN, for the option of stopping invoices a day early, now has a runaway train of invoices that will stop months after the contract/internet access was terminated.

And thatā€™s how I have a new KPN invoice this month. And I cannot dial in to KPN servers this month.

Thanks again everybody for reading. Hopefully other forum users find some of this stuff useful.

Finally reached KPN customer service today. KPN claims that I am still connected to them. When I ask them as simple question as please tell me then my currently assigned IP address? They cannot see one. Because no IP address is assigned by KPN on my home address. But I have an IP address. The one assigned by Odido. Thatā€™s why itā€™s not visible to KPN CS. See proof below.

@Thomas van KPN can you tell me what my IP is?

Believe it or not, KPN offered me to end the contract that already ended on Jan 19th, with opzegging term on one month from the date of the call I had with them. And this is the reason why Iā€™m here, essentially talking to myself, because by now, KPN has charged me two and a half months worth of internet that was disconnected on Jan 19th. And they donā€™t see anything wrong with that.

...some of the proof that KPN is not my ISP and that I cannot have internet access if I try to connect to KPN, a fact KPN refutes:


trying to get my KPN IP from mijnKPN while KPN fritz modem is plugged in at home:


this is the KPN fritz modem plugged in trying to talk to KPN servers. This is what it looks like since Jan 19th when contract ended:
Ā 


And this is when I replace the fritz box and plug in the zyxel modem I received from Odido:
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Ā 



So the latest update on the dream that ā€˜backofficesā€™ will coordinate:
KPN customer service expects me to settle the issue with Odido by calling them, Odido expects me to call KPN.
When calling Odido 2nd time to get an update, a different customer representative explained that the first guy I talked to and I asked to contact KPN, he didnā€™t, so nothing was done. Ticket left at customer will call KPN. Now this new representative will try to contact KPN but only maybe from Monday.
And as I already said KPN support expects me to keep paying or officially submit a request to stop the contract. There is no contract KPN. There is no service provided by you. Just unsolicited invoices.

Reputatie 7
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Well I think we can conclude that you're indeed technically connected to Odido which is good.
The contract will be terminated either by Odido if you used ā€œoverstapserviceā€ or by you.
It could be possible to have a contract without an active connection if nobody cancels it.

An update on the story so far:

On March 7 I finally received a confirmation that my invoicing has stopped. Now the new problem.

KPN has decided to charge me for January 19th (the actual end date of my contract with KPN)
through March 7th. And Odido on my March invoice charged me retroactively from January 19th.

I have paid both KPN and Odido for my internet Jan 19th - Mar 7th.

When I call KPN customer service, they show absolutely zero care in the world that the contract end date was Jan 19th. They stick to March 7th.

Back in March, afraid that KPN would do me again, I made requests with my bank to refund February and March amounts that automatic incasso charged. (Two full monthly payments).

So in March KPN still owes me money back for Jan 19th - Jan 31st.

On April 1st KPN issued a last invoice, titled it March 7th - March 31st. A credit to my account for overpaid month of March. This amount was never credited to me because I did not pay them for March (the charge back I mentioned earlier).

KPN, as it stands, claims that I will never get any money back from them and that I still have two unpaid invoices that mind you, I do not receive any warnings from KPN about. After March 7th not once did KPN remind me that I have unpaid invoices and that they will be forced to take action against me to force those payments. How come KPNs protocol on forcing late payments was not applied to me if those invoices were correct to begin with?

I even called Odido for help, they tell me thereā€™s nothing they can do about KPN. They even offered to refund me the amount from Jan 19th until March 7th that KPN wrongly charged me and of course I said no. Odido is willing, just like that, to pay me back, in order to rectify the double charge.
Compare that behavior to KPN?!

@Moderators here: Is this possible? Is KPN so impossible to deal with, all these months since January 19th. First refusing to acknowledge that my new provider is Odido and then still to this day refuse to rectify all the invoices after the end date of January 19th? How is it possible that I have to go and ask for legal help if I want to finish this story, because your customer service treats me as a delusional customer? Ex-customer since march 7th (KPNs current version of reality and mind you not Odidoā€™s, Odido claims that I am not KPNs customer since Jan 19th).

proof that Odido charged retroactively as they should have:

Ā 



and proof KPN was informed by Odido all the way back in December ā€˜23 that the new contract starts on Jan 19th ā€˜24:

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@Thomas van KPNĀ  The topic is far from being answered

Reputatie 7
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If you use overstapservice, the new provider is responsible for the refund if something went wrong, as the Odido customer service offered.
If it were the other way around we would cover this refund.

Thank youĀ @Thomas van KPN for the response.

Odido customer support advised me toĀ  file a complaint on KPN website. To attach all the proof I already shared here, that the contract and the internet service were both terminated by Jan 19th.
They claimed that once KPN was faced with this, KPN has no choice but to correct the invoices.

Received a phone call today from KPN about the complaint, and it was the exact same behavior as anybody prior. Whatever you tell the person on the phone, they outright reject it.Ā 
ā€œOdido informed you in Dec, and you stopped the service one month later.
response: No we havenā€™t. The internet service was never canceled, and your internet service never stopped. So you should pay us.ā€

All these months and the farthest Iā€™ve come is to get Thomas here to admit that internet service was indeed cut off.
But who would ever think that as good reason to stop charging the customer.


Can you please explain to me what is KPN responsible for?
If you receive a one month notice, as I showed in the jpeg above, which happened in Dec last year. Please KPN cancel this contract starting Jan 19th.
Plus, you shut the service off,

Well I think we can conclude that you're indeed technically connected to Odido which is good.
The contract will be terminated either by Odido if you used ā€œoverstapserviceā€ or by you.
It could be possible to have a contract without an active connection if nobody cancels it.


So you were asked to terminate the contract, you confirmed, then you stopped the service,
And then you just kept charging money for the service that was nonexistent by that point on a contract you confirmed you received a month notice on.

Your excuse, ā€œwell nobody canceled itā€.

How many times do you require a contract to be terminated for you to call it canceled?
How, for the love of logic and deductive reasoning can you put this,

Well I think we can conclude that you're indeed technically connected to Odido which is good.
The contract will be terminated either by Odido if you used ā€œoverstapserviceā€ or by you.
It could be possible to have a contract without an active connection if nobody cancels it.

as a marked answer to this topic.

Imagine, Thomas, if you gave your landlord a one month notice, you moved out, took your furniture, and then months later realized that same landlord is still taking rent money from your bank account. When you call your ex landlord he casually explains to you that, well you didnā€™t yet cancel your house lease. It is perfectly reasonable to get charged rent for the apartment you no longer live in and after submitting a one month notice, if you didnā€™t cancel it. What does the landlord mean by cancellation, nobody can really understand.
Ā 

If you use overstapservice, the new provider is responsible for the refund if something went wrong, as the Odido customer service offered.
If it were the other way around we would cover this refund.


Odido customer service took my word that I was indeed double charged and they offered to help.
Thatā€™s whatā€™s it called. HELP.
The way I experienced KPN, I would lay off mentioning responsibility if I were you.
KPN has only one policy and that is to find a way, any way possible to keep customersā€™ money.
You literally have an epidemic, here on the forum, of your ex customers accusing KPN of wrongfully taking their money.

The difference Odido/KPN customer service experience. I canā€™t stress this difference enough:

ā€œHey Odido, I was double charged since January. Hereā€™s proofā€
ā€œOh no, that is so terrible, the least we can do, even though we provided you the internet traffic and not KPN, is to reimburse you. And donā€™t be silly, put that proof away. What are we going to be that unfriendly and call our customersā€™ scammers, to think our customersā€™ lie when they say internet service was terminated then and thereā€.

ā€œHey KPN, I was double charged since January.ā€
ā€œSays who, no you werenā€™tā€
ā€œHereā€™s proof.ā€
ā€œWell yeah maybe you were, but you used our traffic.ā€
ā€œNo I didnā€™tā€
ā€œYes you didā€
ā€œHereā€™s proofā€
ā€œMaybe so, but your contract was never canceledā€
ā€œYes it was, hereā€™s proofā€
ā€œItā€™s Odidoā€™s fault, Odido is to blame, call Odido, why do you keep calling us, weā€™re keeping the invoices. Bye.ā€

Do you understand Thomas, and all of you moderators, that KPN doesnā€™t have to so desperately hold onto that money that was taken for imaginary service. You and your colleagues, on this forum and on the phone can choose to just HELP. Try it sometimes, see what happens.

And to stress it again, thank you Thomas, moderators for reading, and keeping up with the responses.

Ā 

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odido activated the service starting Jan 19th:
KPN refuses to accept this because it was made on March 7th. Itā€™s just their choice, they chose to be hostile. Itā€™s a good excuse as any for the choice.
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Reputatie 7
Badge +20

I get what you're saying @drmr, regardless where the error is here. You used overstapservice and the agreement between providers is that the new provider does the refund in case something goes wrong.Ā 
As my colleagues on the phone or my colleagues of the complaints department, I can not help you with this.

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